Redflags

Hi, everyone. I just logged on to the new ThirdAge TR page. Was Bootcamp lost along the way?

This guy I have been dating texts me all this time but Never calls- In my past experience, this means Player- it means he has 3 or 4 girls he texts and it also signifies a man who doesnt want to get to know me, just wants the challenge, the intrigue. Ill admit he does want to see me and i have put him off for a while to make a decision on whether or not i want to date him- so its true he wants intimacy- only live and in person! but i think talking on the phone is SUCH a good way to get to know someone. Also, admittedly, maybe its to my benefit bc i tend to talk abut my problems and that wouldnt be good, but i dont want to marry someone i cant talk about my problems with! we've had about 7 dates..when do i get to be my needy self! (lolll) any thoughts?

...just left with stinging regret that i didnt trust my intuition and let it be at that!

just redo TR's and pull away from him the best way for him to know how he feels about you is to not see you at all or less of you.

Hi Jenna, All I can say is that Mr.Right doesn't take ANY advice OR follow it! He has his own impulse and 'must have' desire and a feeling he can move mountains...even at the risk of rejection.

Men are much more exercised with getting turned down or rejected and don't fear it as females do. It is not such a big deal for Mr.Right to reach out and risk a NO from you.

So, ya, since he is the 'pursuer' it is his risk and Mr.Right will take all those risks based on his feelings...and not on what Brad Pitt or a dating guru or even a man friend he admires would say or do.

The only exception is a man who has no particular feelings for you but wants to get you into bed...a little contest. These guys will follow player advice.

I would suggest the 'you snooze you lose' approach for you both!

If you get lazy with TR there might be alot of activity but not the brand you might hope for.

If he gets lazy or doesn't have the impulse to court you properly, he won't get much out of it either...except your keeping looking.

So you may as well keep looking now.

Its easier to do the rules with new guys.

I believe in Call For Closure but it requires seriousness to follow through on your part. For strengthening your resolve to understand and be loyal to the practise of 'call for closure' I would suggest reading 'Closing The Deal' and specifically their chapter on The Bluff.

In the meantime, it sounds like you read it already, you might read 'Getting To I Do' which also outlines atleast three types of 'shaking things up' with a breaking up and then what to do approaches.

Goodluck! Spiller

hey, i've been dating this guy for a year and a half. people would always say we look adorable w/ each other we look crazy about each other. but then i decided to take a break b/c i felt taken advantage of. he used to always take the blame for things he had done and all of the sudden when we took a break about 6 months ago he turned into a different person. he got very defensive. he had thought i had broken up with him and he said he wanted to meet with me so that he could break up with me. that makes no sense, i know, it was just a defense thing. he also kissed a random girl at a party over that break. well we started hanging out a little bit but still on a break. he told me he was going into the air force and i couldn't talk him out of it this time. he used to say that if i ever dumped him he would go into the air force but now i wonder if his mindset is "well she's going to dump me anyway, so i might as welld o it first". i miss the old days when he wanted to show me the world and love me as much as he could. anyways since he told me that i said "this break is over" and i really wouldn't have made the break over if he wasn't going into the air force, i just did it b/c i knew he was leaving soon and wanted to be able to spend as much time as possible with him before he left. well since then, it's been about two months and he only calls me like once a week and sometimes i'm not near the phone so i don't even get to speak to him. i am a bit old fashioned and i believe the man should call the girl when they are dating and if he doesn't call, he's not interested. when his friends talk to me, they talk as if he is still crazy about me and i can't tell if they think this b/c he used to be crazy about or b/c he still acts like he is when i am not around. when i am around he acts different--very non chalant and very more friendly and not so much like he adores me. anyways i'm tired of waiting for him to call. should i just break up with him and give up all we had or is it all gone already since he doesn't act the same? is he still the same person underneath? should also add that during the break, he called me over and over and his older cousin in which he looks up to dearly told him to let me come to him, which is not happening b/c i am not the persuer. was he ill advised and following it or is he really not interested? He's also told me about how he would like it if i called him and i'm like "no i'm not compromising for you, i don't call guys in which i am dating! get over it! if you really cared you wouldn't mind" and he would go "i'll call you more often" but instead he calls less.

Enlightened005-

Thanks for all the advice and insight. Yes, I am fully aware that his behavior will most likely become more obvious when we are married because I will be living with him. I am 36 and I am not a twenty-something anymore.

To be honest I love him as a person and do not always feel "head over heals in love" with him. I know he loves me and my children and that is enough for me at this point in my life. He has gone out of his way to include my children in everything and has a good job and will be a good provider. He offers to pay for every activity and date along with paying my children's expenses.

We have not had a disagreement for 10 days now. He told me if I get offended by anything he says to talk it out with him immediately. He seems to be really trying harder. The last few dates he has asked if he had said anything to offend me or if anything was bothering me at the end of the date.

I have been a single mom for 17 years and marriage offers do not come along every day. I could cut my loses with him and keep looking but, I just am not ready to give up on him. I enjoy his company for the most part. I am a religious person so I have been praying a lot lately. I
am just going to speak up for myself if his sarcastic "mouth" surfaces. I truly believe we can be happy together but, it will take some work!

I will just have to keep doing the rules during our engagement and marriage. If I have outside interests and activities I won't rely so much on him. When I start revolving my whole life around him I have trouble detaching from his negative traits.

I used to post on these boards a lot but haven't had much time in the last year or so. I am also a single mom (divorced 4 years) and I know what you mean about meeting someone who is open to dating someone with children BUT there are LOTS of great guys out there who are open to it especially guys with kids themselves.

I see MAJOR redflags in what you are saying (sorry). My ex husband joked around a lot and said things that hurt my feelings as well. The major problem I see that you have brought up is that your guy then turns things around on YOU and basically blamed YOU and said YOU had an anger issue! (same as my ex- turned things around and then I got all confused and actually started to believe that I may be over reacting or that somehow I had a part to play in things being my fault.)

He has only been divorced a year and I do not think that is long enough for him to be getting remarried. I also think you two should be dating for at least a year before even considering getting engaged.

There is no need to rush things. If he is the right guy and really cares about you he will be understanding and supportive of you if you tell him that you would prefer to postpone the wedding as you feel you need more time to get to know each other.

Take the children out of the equation. What if you did not have kids (you will find more guys who are great AND nice to your kids by the way) would you still want to marry this guy or would you wait?

It is also a red flag that he talks so poorly about his ex wife. I'm not saying he should sing praises about her but it seems like he has some healing to do over his ex-wife leaving him.

Also, a gentleman would have never said what he said to a pastor like that. A gentleman always builds you up and lets you know that he is the lucky one.

Do you feel cherished and special with him no matter what you do or say?

You are not married yet- you do not even need to voice all of your concerns right now if you don't want to but if you feel uncomfortable, postpone things.

When I got married, I felt the same way- cold feet, felt that something was wrong but could not put my finger on it. Yet, my ex husband SAID he loved me more than anything and he is a very well educated man and admired in his profession. I felt like once I said yes to getting married that I couldn't back out. Plus, I thought we had a lot in common, etc. Even on my wedding day I felt the same sinking feeling in my stomach but felt I had to go through with it.

It was such a big mistake. I really feel that even if I had said let's date for another year first, that we never would have married and I would have seen more of his controlling behavior come out before we married.

It is also important for you to realize that whatever negative traits you see in your partner now will most likely get worse after getting married. Can you handle that?

I am sorry to be so blunt but what you want is a kind, gentle spirited person (I don't mean a push over though) who really cherishes you and who doesn't blame you for being upset by something they said!

Redlvster

Thanks for the advice. I have 6 months to go before the wedding. I will try hard to keep my eyes open. When I get a chance I will get the book.

Jen

Yep- this is good to weed the bad news guys out. Smother boy texted me tonight to see 'how I am doing'- of course I won't respond. Honestly I was sad until I made a list of the red flags and now have my head on straight. I miss him, but I know that truly I miss what I wanted it to be, not what really is.

So- interesting update on 'clingy guy'- After a few more weeks of dating, two weeks ago he tells me he loves me (I told him that there was no way I could tell him that until I got to know him better) and hasn't felt this way for years. My Mom came to visit and he wanted to spend all of his time with us (I gave him some, but not all- he made us a great dinner). When I set boundaries he began to make snide 'jokes' and told me I wasn't making our relationship a priority. Last night I was about to break up with him- spoke to him about why, he asked me to be flexible and I agreed. Ten minutes later in the conversation he broke up with me! Just another reminder to me that I really need to trust my feelings, if we think it's a red flag it probably is!

Well, I guess the wedding is still on. He called and would not get off the phone with me for an hour last night! I did do a pro and con list and the trouble is his pros are so big but his con (smart mouth) can be too. He does have more pros than cons but his mouth hurts me. That is the one thing we will have to work on. He claims over and over he likes to joke and does not mean to hurt my feelings. He told me anytime I am worried about a comment to just ask him. He tends to be loud and I am much more shy and quiet. I am a single mother too and he is wonderful with my two boys and includes them in everything! I have dated a lot over the years and men tend to shy away when you are a single mother. I don't care what anyone else says I have witnessed it. To find a man who will care about your kids is hard to find. He has two boys of his own from a previous marriage and he is wonderful to them. He can be very kind and caring and thoughtful to me. I just hope his mouth and my sensitivity do not wreck our relationship.

No you are not overreacting that could be a REDFLAG!!!you don't want a man who verbally and Mentally abuses you!!! What i learned from my parent's marriage is that you don't need someone who makes you feel stupid. My dad in some ways although he is highly educated (a master's degree in Engineering and Physics and worked for nasa ) has acute narcissist and seems to think my mom can't do anything if he doesn't have his input and they have been married for 35 years but my mom stands up for herself whenever he tries to think he knows more. but the good outways the bad My dad accepted my mom with two children that weren't his is a good provider & had to fight his family off From badmouthing her. Also watch how his family treats you.
You don't want the inlaws from Hell. My dad's mom poisioned his brothers and sisters against my mom about false things about her which isn't true but she's dead now (my dad's mom) at times I'm scared to trust other men for fear they might be like him in that way. My father has been there for me all my life though.

You could secretly videotape him and show it to him if it gets to the point where you can't stand it anymore. Or write down a list of pros and cons to see if you can live with both if not then dont get married

Well, I have a dilemma. Last week my boyfriend and I put money down for our wedding reception and had a counseling session with my pastor to get married in my church. I have been with him since July and met him over the Internet. Lately he has been saying (smart ass) comments off the sly that really hurt my feelings. I tend to be oversensitive and have admitted it to him but his comments get to me.He refuses to admit he does anything wrong and this bothers me.

I am so worried because our wedding date is set for August and I have never been married. I do not want to make a mistake and have been getting cold feet lately. I asked two friends if his comment to me was "mean" and they felt it was inappropriate. He told me, "Well, I hope you do not turn out to be a weirdo because I met you off the Internet".

I told him his comment hurt my feelings and he says I have anger issues. Now he is mad at me. He says he does not even remember saying it. He has such a smart mouth and does not even realize some of the hurtful things he says.

I am worried about getting married to a man who turns out to be mean. He is good to me in so many other ways. I am so confused.

He was divorced a year ago and when I ask if his wife was ever offended by his smart mouth he changes the subject. His wife filed for divorce with his two children after twelve years and left him. He bashes her constantly. Lately I worry I rushed into things with him. I wanted to get married in December and he wanted August. He then had the balls to tell my pastor he felt I was pressuring him for a commitment. I know this may sound goofy but, what does anyone suggest. Am I overreacting here?

Datingagain507

I am very sorry that happened to you. I know it stinks to be lonely and it stinks even more to be hurt! Wipe your tears. There are many guys (snakes - as I like to call them) out there like him. He probably did like you but he was a jerk and sounded like he was looking for sex. If a guy starts getting pushy for sex right away it is a huge red flag. True gentleman do not so this. Be glad he stopped calling even if you miss him and are lonely. You are better off!!! Stay close to friends and family and keep trying. Mr. Right won't be a creep looking for sex. Your Mr. Right is out there somewhere. Good luck - honey. You did nothing wrong he was a snake.

Well nothing is wrong with you it's probably you just PBTing about him and can't help it. The best thing to do is move on and use TR's to attract someone else. You did good not letting him think of you as a sex object.

Sounds like you have your head on straight! I'd be creeped by the hug thing he gave you- ick. BTW- he stated "we had fun"? Does that mean that he's decided that since he had fun you had fun also? I don't think I would use him as a duty date because when you let him go he would likely go ape- that would be more trouble than you need in your life! Did you write him back or are you going to just no respond? I prefer the latter!

With my guy- I decided last night to draw some boundaries after I got off the phone with him and he began to text me when he saw me on IM. I just let him know that what I would like is to go forward slowly so that I can get to know him and not some fantasy I build up in my head- if I'm happy after some time, I can consider being his girlfriend but right now I need time to figure out how to fit him into my life without it feeling rushed. He was good with it and we'll see if he can be a little less clingy; no emails or texts thus far today so I'm happy!

Good luck with finding an emotionally healthier guy----

I can relate to your question...

If we follow TR, MVOAD-type advice, we are learning to be receptive to male advances. But what about when we are trying to filter some of the attention/advances, and we don't know if it's good or not? TR says it's Good when guys get angry, it means their interested. But I'm not to a place yet where angry, frustrated man-attention feels good. My ex was very controlling, like yours.

I guess that's why TR make us go slowly, so we get to see these people in all different lights and get to know them.

Your guy seems like a gentleman. In Getting To I Do, the author gives a senario where a woman had been treated badly by her ex-husband. Then she embraces her feminine energy and a very supportive man comes in to her life and doesn't disappoint her. But she had to be willing to give his masculinity a chance. I feel like time will tell if these guys are decent people.

Having said that, I don't feel good about giving this guy from last night a second chance. This guy from last night had no intention of going slowly. I don't feel I could ever get in a car with him or be alone with him, so I guess that means I am not duty dating him anymore.

He sent this email today:

Hi Red,

How are you? It was nice to see you again. We had good time.
Sorry about the little misunderstanding. Please let me know that you are ok. I look forward to see you on Monday (28th) at 6:30.

Talk to you soon,

Lobster

Yuck, yuck, yuck, yuck, yuck. No way am I going out with him next Monday for D2.

Tatrtot, I don't feel like I helped you too much since I feel very similarly to you.

Maybe the other gals have some advice.

-Red

Hi There! Haven't posted here for years, but thought I would come back after great advice before.

On the coat tails of RedLvsTR (BTW, my two cents is trust your gut on that one and let him go) I have a similar issue, not even close to as bad however.

Just to provide some history so that my concern can be better understood- I left an engagement about a year ago due to control issues. It eventually ended up with a restraining order after he threatened to kill my dog and hacked into my computer-

At this point I have been pretty gun shy and feel I can't tell the difference between someone being attentive and very interested or creepy- so hopefully you all can help me!

I met a guy a week ago who I found to be great- we had a wonderful first date. He texted me the next day (a Saturday) at 8:45am to say he had a good time. He's called me everyday and after he found out I had a cat on our second date- he told me he did all of this research about a six months series of shots he can take to battle his cat allergies.

I really like this man and he seems to have a well rounded life- I told him 'no' to a date tonight and he was OK with that (not pushy) and was also OK with no kiss on the first date. My initial feelings are to run away because of my fear of having another stalker type guy, but I wonder if that is my my irrational fears after an abnormal relationship?

As I said, I really enjoy being with him and he's the only person I've really made a connection with in the last year so I don't want to throw it away due to my own baggage.

What do you all think? Thanks!!!

I just had an interesting D1 with a lobster tonight.

In a nutshell, he met some of, and fell short of, things on my Husband Sun chart that I made a few weeks ago. (Please don't judge my HS criteria, please just give feedback on what this all means.)

Here are the things that didn't fit my HS:

1. Works out regularly (his speaks inconsistently of this. on D0 he said he worked out all the time but tonight he said there are whole weeks he can't get to the gym)

2. Dresses becomingly (his clothes were clean and presentable, but I think he dresses too causually for D0/D1)(he wore a sweatshirt and jeans and sneakers both times)

3. Is respectful of my time (he kept repeating how we should be seeing more of each other, seemed annoyed that he had to wait over a week to see me next. repeatedly suggested i tell work that i need both weekend days off so he can take me on a weekend trip in the next few weeks.)(don't worry, I have no plans to do that, it is way too soon and I'm not even sure how much I like him, besides the fact that it's not TR)

4. Deeply respects all women, including me (he got way too frisky at the end of the date. and too clingy. quite frankly, it creeped me out a little bit.)(in my gut that was a really big red flag. I had to say, "OK, that's enough" after he tried to cram his tongue into my mouth, then grabbed onto the back of my head when I tried to pull away. he then apologized if he made me feel uncomfortable about three times as I was leaving.)(before the tongue cram/that's enough moment, he gave me a goodnight hug for the second time, and this time put his head at the base of my neck/the top of my chest, like I was his mom or something. I remember looking over the top of his head and thinking, "O-kaaaay. This is really weird."

I need some feedback, ladies.

I will post this elsewhere.

Thanks,

-RedLvsTR

I sometimes think the rule about gift giving is a little extreme.

I think it states that if the guy buys you a non-romantic gift for VD, birthday etc.. it means you are not his dreamgirl.

I think it depends what else is going on in the relationship and how the guy treats you otherwise.

My BIL is an amazing guy and treats by sister very well. He is very caring, kind and attentive. He is a total gentleman and my family adores him.

He does goof up sometimes with the gift thing. Once he forgot my sister's BD. For a very important birthday he bought her a DVD set for a show that she does not even like!

My sister doesn't let this bother her. Sometimes he gets it right, sometimes he doesn't. What he has to offer the rest of the time is amazing.

It seems like your guy put some thought into your gifts. I would just continue to date and observe his behaviour.

The husband sun is a fantastic way of clearing your mind and progressively drawing up a picture of the non-negotiable qualities that you personally require from a relationship.

The original post has been archived but I think you can still get to it - Engaged post #9.

Start by making a list of your past relationships and objectively study the qualities that you appreciated in that relationship, the reason it finished and the qualities that you could not live with.

Then turn all the qualities positive - ie 'don't like shouting' to become 'able to communicate peacefully'

Then draw a circle on a peice of paper and write Husband in it and rays round the outside with your qualities in.

As you date or simply go through life add and remove rays until you meet your perfect partner - but be warned he may not be what you expect. My man is perfect for me but he is not the macho hardman that I have been used to.

A teddy bear is cute and cuddly - not exactly a practical gift but was it personal?

To me romantic means 'personal and with thought' What good would jewellery be if you did not wear any? If you like teddy bears then yes, its romantic.

Hello Phillipa,

Sorry for posting in response here, but I also wanted everyone else's opinion.

In response to your question, yes, I am attracted to Cat, otherwise I wouldn't waste my time, but I just want to tread carefully and look for any possible flags. I want very much to let my guard down and just see what happens gracefully, but at the same time, I've been burned before from not following and heeding the rules as they are written, so I want to play my cards carefully.

You mentioned that the small bear is a little romantic aside from the non-romantic DVD and mug (these seem book and toaster-esque) which are practical gifts per TR.

Anyone else have any opinions on stuffed animals being in the romantic category?

-Emily

if he doesn't specifically ask YOU for it No otherwise you would probably get strangers calling you

Sandy-
I would just pull back and restart TR's and just send him your phone number if he requested it and then just give him time and space and practice being a CUAO and try to line up other men

Hi, I'm new to this board and I really need some advice. I amd having some trouble with a "friend" of mine.

To go over the story briefly, we worked together a few months ago and despite the fact that we lived together (we were both rooming together for work along with other co-workers) and saw each other everyday, he still thought I was a CUAO. We ended up kissing for 2 nights and although I did not have sex with him, I think I may have made out with him a little too long! EEk! I was unrulesy with him one night when I showed disappointment when he told me he had cheated on a past girlfriend and that I thought our age difference was too big! (This was the night before we finished work)

Anyway, when we stopped working together he asked that I write to him and a few days later reiterated that he wanted me to write him. Well, about 3 months ago I totally acted badly, when I asked why he took down a few pictures of us wrestling (just playing around) from his myspace account. I knew I shouldn't have written it after the fact....he wrote back saying he was sweaty in them. Then I wrote him a l&b message back (a few days later) just to respond on what I was up to. He didn;t say anything for 3 weeks.

Then, I get a greeting card from him in my e-mail and I again was unrulesy saying that I noticed his long absense -wtf was i thinking?

anyway, he appologized and kept asking for forgiveness saying he always seems to screw up with me. I wrote back a brief message sayign I wasn't mad and told him what I was up to (since he asked). That was 3 months ago and I haven't heard from him since.

I recently got an e-mail that he sent out to all his friends asking for their phone numbers, but I know not to reply to this. However, I am afrid I have lost my friend here. I still have feelings for him and other than those 3 insidents I really never acted unrulsey. Now he has gone!

I am wondering if I should just reply to his phone number e-mail just stating my phone number and nothing else? Or should I just write him a letter? He can see on myspace that I am writing to other people since they tell me they received my letter - but I have never sent him one! Does this look mean?

I know that in past experience it is not a good idea to offer your phone number unless they specifically ask for it - but i am trying to make some peace offering with him! I am afriad that he either a) is afraid i am upset with him and is afriad to contact me or b)doesn't care if he hears from.

I know in my heart I shouldn't write him a letter or respond to his phone number e-mail by rewarding his bad behaviour (disappearing like that) but I'm uneasy about losing him as a friend (since it seems like I have lost him romantically). I know a lot of people will just saw Next him, but he is a good friend of mine. Is there anyway to fix this?

Hi, I have two girls aged 9 and 11. Although I am their mother and love them dearly I am totally aware that they are a handful - totally 'in your face' all the time. I was worried when I started dating about the issue of another man excepting my children.

I tried different ways of introducing them and types of interaction. I have found that the men that truely cared for me accepted the girls without limits. I am currently dating Salsaman who has two girls also (16 and 19). His youngest lives with him. He is confident and very much in touch with his feelings and emotions. He goes out of his way to entwine our families. He is currently excitedly planning a big family Christmas including all the children.

A totally different type of man - my ex-husband...Macho man! Whenever he gets involved with a woman with children he accepts them and realises by spoiling the children it pleases the woman. If he likes her he makes the effort to ensure that her children adore him.

It might be more of an effort for men but if they want to (like you enough) then they will try.

Good luck!

Esther ~ Thanks for your post, it made
me feel better. I have spent way too
much time PBTing over my own
unrulesy behavior on this one. I was
really attracted to him and so it was
easy to just go along with all that
sexual stuff that came up so early on.
I hope that you do get the job and that
whatever he says doesn't matter...it
shouldn't, and if he knows what is
good for him he won't badmouth
you..it will make him look
unprofessional IMHO.

JenPacker - Has he done anything
specific thru his actions that show he
is annoyed with your boys? I think
that if he's a good guy, no matter who
was the father of your children, he
should be able to appreciate your boys
as much as you appreciate his. W/r/t
some men not liking the children of
other men around... I mean...what
other choice do you have here? From
what you have posted, you're
not with the father of your kids at this
point, and
are understandably moving on and
looking for something new. i don't
know the story but that seems clear
from your post. And good for you for
moving on.

Whomever you end up with is going to
have to deal with the fact that you
have two children from a different
father. I think that when a guy really
cares for you, he'll care for your kids
also and want to be part of their lives.

Not sure exactly how TR
addresses this if at all off hand. Also, I
do not have children myself, so I do
not have first hand experience dealing
with your situation. It just makes
sense that a new guy in your life who
cares about you would also appreciate
your kids as part of who you are as a
person. Just my .02.

Wow. Your tale sounds just like the guy I just met!

My experience is a little more complicated than that. One of this guy's friends, who is a girl, is helping me get a job. (I'm on the job hunt right now) He messed it up by trying to hit on me the first time he met me! Now I have a feeling I won't get the job because he is probably talking trash about me (I didn't let him touch me). I'm trying to look at the bright side - at least I won't be around him!

I'm always glad when they weed themselves out fast like that. Then I don't have to deal with a jerk later.