TR Ex

Hello,
How are you? I saw your profile today at http:(www.thirdage.com)and feel like contacting you.I feel we may become matches(liliankuru@yahoo.com) is my contact. Kindly make a contact if you are interested, so that i can send you my picture for you to know who iam meanwhile my name is Lilian. I will appreciate it if you give a good responds.Thanks and remain blessed.
(Remember the distance,color or age does not matter but love matters alot in life)

Hi,

The same three day rule applies to weekday dates as weekend dates but only to a maximum of seeing him one day a week in the first month, two days in the second month and three days a week from then on till engagement/marriage.

Hello everyone!

I'm new to TR and I just can't figure out if dating during the week is against the rules? If it's not, how many days in advance does he have to call in order for me to say "yes" to the date?

Thank you all!!!

Khmer911 and hisbrwnidgrl,

I am not sure if anyone answered your questions. But, I will say don't have sex with the ex, because this will only confuse YOU not him.

He must pursue you on a 3 or 4 to 1 ratio. Meaning he should take 4 steps (calling, leaving messages, emailing) before you provide a light and breezy opening, of "Ok, I can date you, let me check my calendar. Oh gosh, I am busy this week." Then he has to pick up the pace to set a date. However, after the 4 step HE MUST ASK YOU OUT ON A DATE! No ifs, ands , or buts.

He must pursue you. That's The Rules (TR).

Meanwhile date other men no matter how much you are yearning for the ex. The ex is an ex for a good reason.

If he is not contacting you, he's not that interested.

If he was thinking of you the way you think about him, then he would have called by now.

When a man is hungry, he will find ways to get food. He will work harder for the filet mignon because he already knows McDonald's taste. Get the point!

Menina

Hi, I am wondering if I should sent a note to my first true love. We met in high school he was my best friend for 2 years. He watched me date other guys and was still around. He knew I did not want anything more than friends but he kept trying. He would send me flowers on valentines day and I went to the Christmas dance with him. I moved to New Jersey from
California in my junior year of high school. He would write me deligently. He saved up money to come and see me during the summer of our junior year. He was my first time sexually and I was his. My feelings changed for him that summer. I had missed him terribly when we moved and realized I loved him. I had visited him during Christmas break in California, he was somewhat distant and was upset that we had slept together. I was not religious at the time but he was a strong Catholic and I think he felt guilty having sex before marriage. We were both very naive at the time. After my senior year I moved back to California and he had grown distant and was dating another girl. We ended up going to the same junior college but he made no attempts to see me. It was obviously over. His girlfriend at the time came to my work one day and said..All he talks about is you! I was angry that he was stringing her along and was telling me nothing. I have not spoken to him since this time and this was over thirty years ago. I have thought about him over the years and still love him..I am wondering if I should just write a quick note to say hi how are ya and see if he contacts me back. I had to do a search for him and it looks like he is not married..do not know though. I'm kind of wanting to put it to rest one way or the other, rather than think about him and what could have possibly been. Thanks for your help. Dee Dee

I need help! I've just gotten a copy of the Rules and I've screwed up a lot and don't know if there's hope for fixing this particular situation. I dated a guy 17 years ago, was very in love (only 18 y.o. at the time) and was dumped by him. Then, we he called me a few months ago and poured out his heart to me telling me he's been in love with me since then. He's a single dad and the mom is not involved in the son's life. Well, in our conversation, I did let him say far more than I did. But, that's the only thing I've done right since! I've been too available to him, talked too much, texted, etc. (not every day... sometimes, I'd let a week or more go by) But, now, he calls every week or 2. Forgot to mention, we slept together a month ago. That was probably the 5th or 6th time we'd seen each other. Honestly, it was hard to hold out that long given our very sexual past. But, I know it was too soon. We texted each other some provocative texts (which I initiated) on Friday night and I've not heard from him since.

Tell me exactly what to do and I'll do it! I've totally screwed this up! I'm afraid it's never going to work out now! Should I ignore him IF he ever calls/txts/eml again? If so, for how long?

I will say that his actions have NOT been in line with all his proclamations of love. When we're together, he's very tender and attentive, but he seems to call when it's convenient for him.

And, pathetic me, I LOVE HIM! I know it's sick. I'm trying to meet other men to distract myself and I'm keeping myself busy!

After being single for 6 years.. I met an amazing guy.. Gorgeous, smart, funny, treated me well. I did the rules on him almost perfectly for a month and a half when he proposed. He chased me the whole time. When he proposed, naturally i was thrilled and said yes (first mistake) after about 2 months, he began being a bit disrespectful, depressed and started breaking dates. He would say he was in a bad mood and didn't want to bring me down. I took it as rejection. I was really sensitive to any negative comment he made and I kept expecting him to start treating me badly. He sensed this and accused me of always assuming the worst about him. I guess it was a self-fulfilling prophesy because eventually he did start treating me badly and drinking. I told him I could not tolerate the drinking but that I loved him and wanted to support him through his depression. He started to say things about maybe we should postpone getting married (we had a date set for this summer) He started talking about going abroad to finish school for a year (without me) At wits end, I purchased a consultation with Ellen and Sherrie. They told me to cut off all contact with him and tell him only contact me if he is serious about getting married. I cried when I read this because it seemed so cold and heartless. I didn't think I could or should do something like that. I knew it would hurt him so much. My friend encouraged me to do it though and against my better judgment, I did it. He was devastated and angry. In the end I relented and apologized for saying that. We were only seeing each other once a week after this. We decided to stop having sex (i think this was another mistake). We tried to find some common ground.. He wanted to be just bf/gf instead of being engaged because he had too much stress in his life (money problems, job problems, depression). I took that as rejection when I think he was really just trying to offer me what he was able to offer at that point. I kept thinking if he really loves me, he will accept my terms (stop drinking and go through with the wedding plans) but in the end he broke up with me a little over a month ago.

I had to leave the country right after that to see my parents and I was hoping that by not having any contact with him for a month, it might heal wounds and make him miss me. I didn't talk to him or email him for a month until I got back and then I did TR One Call for Closure. I called him, he called me back. We talked for 10 minutes.. I kept hoping he'd ask to see me because I told him I was applying for jobs out of the country (this is true but i haven't had any offers yet). Unfortunately he tried to get off the phone first but then he said "can I see you before you go" I waited for 5 seconds before saying "sure." But when he didn't propose a date and time I asked him "when ?" We made plans for last Thursday. He said "on Thursday we should call each other.." I bought a new dress that day to give myself confidence. I waited until about 7:30 (usually we go out at 7) and he hadn't called. I emailed him saying "I'm sorry I didn't remember what time we were supposed to get together tonight." Then at 8pm I called him. He didn't answer. I was tired and a bit jet lagged and at 8:30 I gave up and decided to go to bed. At 8:50 he called me and said he was very sorry but he got stuck in a long meeting at work. He seemed genuinely sorry and concerned about me. He asked if there was anything he could do to help me. I told him I needed something fixed in the house. (was this a mistake ???) I really did need this thing fixed and he fixed it before... Anyhow he said he'd call me "at the beginning of next week." Here is is Tuesday morning and he still hasn't called.

I love this man. Despite his faults he is really great. Ellen and Sherrie said my mistake was making myself too available and saying yes to the marriage proposal too soon. They said that wasn't hard to get I didn't know there was a too soon !

All my life I have usually been the one who was dumped and usually got very needy and fearful. I don't know how to break out of this pattern. I did it pretty well the first month and a half of our relationship. After that I started doubting and becoming insecure and waiting for him to hurt me and eventually he did. I don't know how to get out of this pattern. I am in therapy and may go on meds... My whole life is a mess now as I am unemployed and have isolated myself from most of my friends here.

I'm 33 and I live in a conservative country where most women are married before they are 24. I'm the foreigner here and when people ask me if I am married or have kids and I say "no" they look at me with pity.

I just wanted to post, I don't know if anyone has any good advice besides "Next!"

Im totally with you on that but at least we have these boards now and hopefully can keep each other straight.

I had a long term relationship for 6 years with a guy who constantly lied and cheated on me. I eventually broke it off and he pursued me for 4 years!!!!! He sent me cards and numerous bouquets or flowers with messages about not being able to live without me. So i was prob doing the no contact without realising it. Id take the risk or rejecting him again it might make him more keen and really what do you have to lose? Although i realise its easy to say when your not involved. Let me know what you decide.

Suz

Sorry that didnt come across right he did reply to my text saying I miss you but am wondering whether i could give you the attention you deserve (with him working so much) and i replied guess you couldnt (was trying to be L&B). What i meant was since that point he hasnt been back in touch (now almost 4 weeks).
Anyway your right i cant control what he does or doesnt do or sit about waiting i have to try and move on and if he gets in touch i will deal with it then if not its his loss. Keep me posted on the situation with your ex. Us rules girls need to stick together :)

Thanks for your response.

Well the text i sent to him was now 3weeks ago and ive heard nothing.

Im actually thinking of typing a response text (at the moment while i feel sane) and saving it into my phone incase he does contact me.

Something along the lines of i dont think we are right for each other.

Anyway the last texts he did respond with the i miss u etc but dont think i could give u the attention etc and i just replied to that 'No i guess u couldnt' then changed the subject. About an hour later he sent me a joke i ignored it and and hour after that he apologies he seemed to want to keep the contact going. Anyway next day my phn cut off for 3 days so ive no idea whether he tried to contact me or not.

Im trying the whole 8 weeks no contact (GTID) but not sure if you can do that after you have caved.

Any ideas?

Hi Suz,

I just read your post and there was something in your post that reminded me of a similar situation to my ex. When you mentioned that you "caved" and texted him back after several weeks I have to admit that I too have done that. An ex of mine was writing me an e-mail after we hadn't spoken for about a month or two and I really wanted to ignore it so he would find a way to talk to me again. Well, he never did and about 4 weeks later I responded to his e-mail (just basic chit chat about what we were both up to) and I completely stopped hearing from him after I responded.

If there's anything I've learned, if a man is a jerk to you and you "cave" and write him back he probably knows that you're still lingering around and then can have you or leave you. But if you don't respond at all it scares them a bit which might make them contact you again. I just realized this with an ex of mine who is trying to get back in touch with me. He was a jerk to me at the end of our relationship and ended up cutting off communication with me. We hadn't spoken in 1.5 years and recently he tried to add me to Facebook as a "friend". I rejected the offer, didnt say anything and now a month later he is trying to contact me again. The only problem is now I am wondering if I should accept his offer since he is trying harder this time to contact me.

PLease let us know what happens in your situation.

Hi all im brand new to this and have read the post i love the advice and think i need some myself.

Long story short. Met online i made him wait 4 months to meet as i didnt really want to meet anyone was just online to chat (didnt have online TR then).

Anyway daily text messaging for 4 months followed by first date.

He seemed smitten and asked me to be his girlf within a week.

We spent xmas and new year together and he introduced me to his friends and family.

We went out for 2 months (were not intimate). Then.... we started working 6 days a week which i know to be true. He started cancelling dates and pulling back. During the 2 months i broke every rule, i was calling sometimes, driving too see him, not seeing my friends.

Anyway less than a week after the split he texts to see how i am. Naturally i was angry. He said he missed me and regretted the split but didnt ask me back out. I didn respond. I didnt hear for 6 weeks then i caved and texted him (thinking one call for closure). He seemed pleased to hear from me and said he missed me but was still workin all these hours and didnt know how he could give me the attention i deserve (his words). Again nothing about asking me out. I said ok and changed the subject a couple more texted and that was it. That was over a week ago and ive heard nothing.

What should i do?

Hi everyone,

I am divorced, yet still love my ex husband. He seems to be VERY responsive to The Rules. I didn't talk to him for 2 months and he then started up contact with me, but I think I reassured him way too much and he has backed off again! I am again not talking to him (not in a mean or angry way -- we actually divorced still on good terms) and I guess I am just looking for a place for support. Its really not that difficult, especially now that I am older, I find The Rules SO much easier to do, but I suppose that I just need gentle reminders to keep it up!

Hi,

I could really use some advice on an ex of mine that is trying to get back in contact with me. I have not spoken to him in about 1.5 years, and the last time we spoke things had ended quite badly.

To go over the history briefly, we dated a few months before our relationship became long distance and I admit I was a bit unrulesy during our time apart, I acted a bit clingy trying to keep up the contact. He stopped talking to me for several months and then one day he wrote me an e-mail desperately wanting me to hear from me. I was very upset at him for his disappearance and told him if he was really interested in me he never would have disappeared. Well, he tried to call me to "talk about it" and fix what he had done, but I had changed my phone number. But, when I gave him my new number, he never ended up calling.

Now, 1.5 years later he is trying to add me as a friend to Facebook and now I don;t know what to do. A part of me wants to ignore his request since he left me hanging for so long, and sine he disappeared once, he does not deserve to hear from me again. But a part of me wants to add him to see what he wants.

Any thoughts anyone?

ANY RULES GIRL WHO HAS HAD A HEARTBREAK MUST GO OUT IMMEDIATELY AND PURCHASE "WHY MEN MARRY BITCHES" (different than her first book "Why Men Love Bitches"- very different)- IT WILL TURN ALL OF YOUR ANGER AROUND AND TEACH YOU STUFF YOU NEVR DREAMED YOU STILL HAD TO LEARNED AS RG's ;)

grlzpower
you sound great and I am really happy for you!! stay clear and strong! sometimes I think about my ex (like right now for example, and Im having a generally bad morning, so...)- and while this new man of yours was having the Rules done on him automatically in the beginning (because your attentioms were on IM), he fell head over heels.

What if my IM would have done the same with me had I not acted like a doormat! I still love him- (although I do have days where I dont think about him too much- this is new!) and I have this lingering "what if" echoing in my soul...

We were friends for 5 years before we got together. Part of me wonders what I would have been like had I bneen less doormatty, but I also feel he's sort of manic and hard to be around and sort of creepy (lol- as I write this, but i still love him anywayz!)..so there were other reasons I never pictured him fathering my kids, but STILLLL...MY PART!! UGGHH!!

We went out for about a month (he broke it off) of course, looking back now i was sooo un-rulesy. Some of the things i said/did geez it makes me cringe. Any way, that was in our final year of high school (2006). I was the first girl he was ever with (late bloomer i know!) and this year has given me the chance to sit back and observe how he is with several other girls. I've found that he is the type of guy Ellen and Sherrie talk about (loves the thrill of the chase, he wants to pursue, gets turned off when the girl pursues him etc). So any way, after about 2 months of No Contact, he started an msn convo with me. My answers were short and abrupt. i was polite, and i ended the conversation after 30 mins. I made my status 'appear offline' on msn for a whole week after that. The next time i allowed him to see my online status he immediately started talking to me. I was ecstatic - this guy was always so indifferent, and all of a sudden he's trying so hard to get my attention (flattery, asking about my day, just like Ellen and Sherrie said he would!!) He asked me what i was doing the next day, but didnt ask to meet up, (but i made it clear that i was busy because thats the rule). So the week after he asked what was a good day for me to catch up, i picked a day that was more than a week away. So the first date, round 2 was set. All we had to do was arrange a time and place. In our relationship the first time around I'd be the one to call and ask what we're doing, where we're meeting etc, but i didn't call him this time, and guess what? neither did he!!!! I then disappeared off msn for more than 2 weeks (i only allow one 30min - 1 hour msn conversation per week) And he was constantly online. Then i allowed him to see my online status and HE DIDN'T TALK TO ME !!! I don't understand what i did wrong! I did the rules PERFECTLY! If you've read this far, thanks so much for reading! Can you see anything in my behavior that would've chased him away (i didn't bring up 'the talk' or exclusivity or anything un-rulesy). Do you think he couldn't be bothered pursuing me?? He has my cell number, but didn't call it, thats why i was so scarce on msn, i was trying to encourage him to call my cell! Any suggestions would be wonderful!

Hi Grr! Thats soooo great! Wow! What a journey!

Lately I have had a ton on my plate and unable to post...

But hooray!

PS. I have never felt 'leaned on' by you! You did the work! It was heartwarming for me that you shared your experience!

...but : ) ...thanks for saying thanks!

My opinion is that it isn't necessary to do things ALONE.

If I don't catch up with you soon enough...Merry Christmas!

Love Spiller

Let it go - at least for a while...

I know it is hard but let him be....I do not like only one thing that he says it was only your mistake....

It takes two for tango....

Well whatever. Move to bootcamp, they will help ya. But I would strongly sudgest to do 8 weeks with him.

He needs and wants a space than give it to him. No phonecalls, no messages nothing. Even do not pick up his phonecalls....

The only thing that works with men is silence.

We broke up with my ex ( and it was final) but he did started messaging and phoning after a year ...

You know what? Sometimes I had very difficult time to make it but I DID NOT ANSWERED HIM once for a half of a year!

Do you know what? By silence ( even it was not my purpose)
I got him from a message every three weeks to a daily message and even phonecall every other day. I have not picked it up ONCE or answer it ONCE!

This can silence do with a man!

Hugs, Patty

So..My boyfriend of 5 years broke up with me in April. I was shocked as he always said he wanted to marry me and saw us being together forever and I thought the relationship was amazing. Everyone saw us as the perfect couple and was shocked when it happened. The reason why we were not engaged was my fault. He wanted to marry me after 6 months of dating, however, I felt it was too soon, again he brought up marriage after 2 years and I still did not feel ready (what was I waiting for..I have no idea). This guy is amazing, a truly great guy!! After we broke up my family was devestated and my father called my now ex-boyfriend (unannounced to me) and asked him if he would consider relationship counselling.

So..we went to counseling from May-August. During counseling it came out that he was very hurt by some things that I had done in the relationship..such as giving my number out to guys when they asked for it. I must justify this action..I did not do it because I was interested but because I never really now how to handle saying no..I kinda feel bad for the guy..whatever..no excuse. He also said that he felt like I was playing "games" . He also mentioned that he did not feel as though I loved him as much as he loved me and that as a result he was tired of the whole relationship and did not feel the same anymore. In counseling he also mentioned that his mother did not like me so much (his family life and his relationship with his mother is complicated). Anyways I said I would change..in these 4 months he was sometimes cold to me sometimes warm. In sept. my ex and I went to marriage preperation classes on the advice of our counselor. From Spet-Nov., things were great between me and my ex, we acted like we were basically dating just no physical and no spoken commitment. He called, bought me presents, took me out. During this whole break up I have countless times told my ex how I feel, that I still love him and want to make the relationship work, he's response is always "I don't know".

Anyways about 2 weeks ago I had a breakdown over the phone...I told him that I could not take the inbetween stuff of not knowing whether we were together or not. He reminded me of the fact that we were still broken up. His action during the last 4 months did not indicate that whatsoever, I said I was going to give him his space..he said that that was all he ever wanted, and also said he didn't think I would give it to him! I reinforced that I loved him and wanted to get back together and that I regretted all my actions..he said nothing..we then talked for 4 hours about non-relationship stuff, and hung up the phone. This was about 2.5 weeks ago. He has only called me once since, however, he was returning my call. I have called him twice. He is polite on the phone and we talk just about everday stuff..but still he does not call me.

Ohhhh what should I do?? I love him soo much, I really do. On the phone my ex admitted that we had something really special but basically I screwed it up. I know its not rulesy to pursue but should I continue to call and such or just let it go? Normally I follow the rules pretty well, as I tend to be a bit of a natural rules girl but I have no idea what to do in this situation, I am heartbroken and confused :( Any help would be appreciated!! The counselor feels that my ex's rejection of me stems from his relationship with his mom, that he is projecting it onto me..who knows!!
Sorry this is so long.

Saw your post in Salon.

I am so happy for you!!

I know it was difficult for you to let go of your dreams for a relationship with your ex.

But you put the right actions into motion, dating others and being receptive to other men.

I am so proud of you.

You really put the rules to work for you.

GOOD LUCK

Hopefully we'll soon be hearing of an engagement! (If that's what you want!)

Ladies of Ex:

I am happy to say that I am no longer dating my ex! Happy cause while I thought he was "the one" for the longest time, I was wrong, that's not a bad thing.

While dating him for the 2nd time, I also dated 2 other guys and one of them is now officially my bf as of last week! The comparison as far as how I've been treated is like night and day...see my salon posting which gushes all about it, I won't bore ya with the details. Suffice to say, intially I wasn't "connected" like I felt with Chris, the ex, but CuteSmart1 won me over with his great personality, persistance and always being a man of his word. I took that last part for granted until I dated my ex Chris...he hardly ever called and pulled "no show no call" 4x in the months we dated, a hell I wouldn't put my worst enemy through. So now I appreciate CuteSmart1 cause I've seen the dark other side and it's not pretty!

Take care ladies, I'm out of here!

Good luck!

PS: Spiller, I owe you a blouse for crying on your shoulder so many times! Thank you for listening to me and your wise council. You deserve great things since you are so loyal and helpful, even to a total stranger online. Thank you again.

Hi Tash, Sounds good! I would add a TR tip for you...that on Saturday before the date, as TR says, don't try to cram in a rlsp seminar or a TR seminar or even think or talk too much about it all...maybe don't even visit or post here.

Let it go...pamper yourself and keep it light.

TR suggests just keeping the conversation light...just on a catch up level.

TR says 'don't dress down' or too casual like it is the hundreth date. You can dress up a bit...but not 'trying too hard!'

Have a great time!

Spiller

Hey Grr! Thats a classy superpost! Thankyou!

I hope Tash finds your post.

Something weird/wonko came to me today. I realised a weird thing about 'ex's'...

Something weird about 'ex's' is that they may have dumped you or bolted/poofed or jus kept you hanging/warm for a long time...but all the while 'you weren't the One' and sure didn't feel like it...but ya never know...and so on...

But then he calls or the chemistry is still there when you bump into eachother etc...

And ya know what I think happens?

I think an 'ex' does an especially weird thing of 'seeing' you with a unique 'abstract'...

For examlple, my 'ex' didn't consider 'seeing' me as cheating on his new girlfriend.

Had I been a new acquaintance it would have rated as cheating big time....phonecalls, flirting, sexual talk and inuendo, suggested dates...even downplaying and insulting his current girlfriend and rlsp!

I think men ASSUME their girlfriend(s) will be asking...at some point... and USE sick aunt's, someone moving house, or even the 'ex' as an excuse.

An old friend from highschool, a second cousin, filling in for a colleague etc...

I mean, SURE! He'd love to see you and can and will! My 'ex' still calls whenever his girlfriend is down with the flu, off for holidays or pissed off with him for a few days.

I wondered how that could work?

Its because, if confronted, all his has to say (and he knows it!) that IT'S NOTHING...just an ex, a second cousin, an aunt...just like saying there was a traffic jamb or he had to work late...or lost your number!

Don't fall for it!

Last week I was invited to a Sunday Bruch at a ritzy hotel. He stood me up. Three days late we bumped into eachother in the street and he PROFUSELY apologized that he had been stood up/called in to work.

Mr. Right would have called the hotel/restaurant AND in the days following have made some sort of contact.

Years ago I may have FELT, ah yes, poor you, I 'u n d e r s t a n d' and, on top, would have pushed myself to towards tolerance.

But this time, here is the street, 'just bumoing into' oneanother and hearing this rap, I just looked him in the eye and shook my head and said 'What a drag, what a drag!' and literally walked on...and went shopping...

I mean to suggest....whether your guy is dating others, shopping around still or so-called confused OR seems to be maybe don't think he gives a shit.

Don't get mixed up!

Don't confuse the two!

Yes! It is supercool when a 'ex' approaches you and it COULD be reconciling BUT it xan also be 'same old'.

In other words, the 'reconciliation' that both TR and GTID build in...and/or cannot rule out is a double edged sword.

My experience is that an 'ex' resurfacing can easils go either way....AND BOTH WAYS APPEAR IDENTICAL...reconciling or 'same old'.

I think 'very gingerly' is the word for how to approach such a thing.

Yikes, gotta go!

Spiller

Hu Tasharni (beautiful name!), Yes, you should get a medal! All the power to ya sweety!

'Ex's are scarey though, arn't they?

Did you happen to see on CNN...the Oprah section...yesterday...the article about The Rules?

'Diehard' Rulesgirls eill tell you that you habe to be truly, really busy...searching fullfillment, snd thats what this article affirms.

'Texting' can be such s drain. You're not alone!

Just tell him you do yoga and that you don't 'phone' or even have radio...

...and R E A L L Y do yoga....

...which is 'relationship minded' no?...

...and dee if he brings you incense and yogourt etc or not.

If its not yoga, it might be watercolour painting or badminton.

In German they have a saying 'The way to a woman is through her child'...and I can attest to this.

Whatever you like, have your 'child' and see if he will provide for that or not.

Its a kind of filter system!?

I mean, there are 'brainchilds'.
Maybe you love saving dolphins or greek food...doesn't matter.

See how he provides or not for the 'brainchilds' of the romance.

Thats my opinion!

Spiller

My ex and I have been split up for about 3 years.

While it wasn't the easiest break-up, it seemed to settle for a little while into some sort of civility and friendliness, which I thought was great, if only for the sake of our 7 year old.

Problem is, the man can't help himself from starting something. He would pick bad fights with me on a monthly basis, fights in which he'd start screaming at me and rehashing a lot of really old stuff between us.

Not only is it exhausting and upsetting, it's perplexing. The guy found a new GF within a few weeks of me asking him to leave. Based on the very non-Rulesy relationship that they have, I suspect she was waiting in the wings. Anyway, he's got another girlfriend, so why can't he just leave me alone?

I don't want to get back together with this man. Not the way he is now, anyway. He's not the smiley, optimistic, ambitious guy I fell in love with. He's gotten paranoid and grumpy.

As a result of re-reading TR, I don't take his calls anymore, because I've learned he calls me to pick a fight. I told him to call me only in the event of an emergency pertaining to our daughter, and in all other instances to text or e-mail me.

I notice he often picks a fight around dates of importance. In September he tried to pick a fight with me around the time of our anniversary.
I got a text from him on Tuesday afternoon (the day before my birthday): "Can I call you now?" Uh-oh, someone's gettin ready to rumble. I waited a few hours and texted back, "No, you can send me an e-mail or a short text." Needless to say, he didn't send me anything.

Yesterday I got a nice text message from him wishing me happy birthday. I appreciated the thought, but I didn't respond...I don't want to open up lines of communication that might lead to a fight!

Hoo! 'Socially retarded'!

Its hard to read humour online but I hear ya!

I'm glad you are keeping your humour.

Grrr, you know? I fell bad myself for a 'social retard'. It was all so weird and wonderful. It felt so good. I loved the weirdness!

Did you read the part in GTID where she writes about oxytocin bonding...and it can happen that the scrawniest, acne pocked, bad toothed, unambitous, dorkiest, laziest, greasiest, deceitful, perverse, rude, narrowminded, mean, greedy, confused etc (my guy wore chest high jeans!) can, in your eyes, become 'Adonis'?

She explains that with varying degrees of familiarity, we 'bond'. She uses that word alot.

I myself tend to 'bond' VERY quickly.

I mean to suggest that you might seperate your bonding nature (customized!) from any issues surrounding this particular guy.

I found this helpful because, at one point, I gave him all the credit...for being so wonderful.
When I LEARNED that my admiration played a part, and it wasn't all just his wonderfulness, I got to have some fun too.

In layman's terms! 'He' doesn't make you feel that way! You just happen to be able to feel that way to begin with.

GTID goes on to talk about 'painful bonding'.

Its important to recognize the difference between more primtive bonding (such as with oxytocin/sexual hormones) and 'painful' bonding.

Prolonged episodes of longing are harmful/painful.

GTID distinguishes between 'hurtful' and 'harmful'.

You would have to figure this out now?

Is his 'manner' hurtful or harmful?

If we called your 'longing' hurtful it is one thing. It hurts/aches. Sometimes 'lovesickness' feels just right.

Or, is it harmful? Meaning it is starting to cut into other vitality such as apppetite, getting to work, other relationships suffering etc. Is it hitting you financially?

(With my ex there were COSTS!)

I'm saying too much....

About your last paragraph...most importantly...about your not needing this in your life right now...

I would suggest that, afterall, maybe you do! Don't knock it.

I would suggest that the 'complications' involved pretty well reflect the depth and capacity and breadth of your love and interest.

So its not only about how great he is, its also about how great you are.

The TRick is to take care and big responsibility for helping that.

GTID explains that men don't protect us from themselves.

So you protect yourself now K?

That was a wakeup call for me...a disappointment.

I also didn't know 'how'!

To be honest, I didn't know I was suppose to!

TR says you're suppose to!

Its not a punishment!

In layman's terms, GTID says, 'A man cannot fall in love with a woman who is not in love with herself first.'

If that goes against your grain (as it did with me at first), you might try 'who is responsible for her own search for fullfillment and say 'no' to relationships that are overtaxing her virtues.

Hmph!

It could be anything Grrr!!!

Last weekend, Sunday morning, I got up and out rather early. I took my little kid downtown to a 'high class' restuarant to meet a guy for breakfast. He wasn't there!

Thats overtaxing/too much work.

You can be looking back and see this.

A 'syndrome' is feeling urges to get back what you put in...or atleast some compensation...even a drop of attention.

Thats where 'taking one's losses' comes in very handy.

I would say that males are brought up to risk less and take their losses much more readily and easily than females.

For some reason we tend to put all our eggs in one basket!?

I think this has alot to do with a kind of signing over our vitality to someone else.

An innocent mistake!

But the kiss of death for romance...if you ask me!

Apparently, with TR, such 'emancipation'...namely taking over full responsibilty for one's search for fullfillment, at all costs, is thee turnon...and thats what we're doing!

I'm already turned on, romantic and spirited. The 'relationship' cann't fuck with that.

I think you have been giving this guy way too much admiration and credit.

Snarl, snarl : )

Spiller